Ayana Evans / and Nicolás Dumit Estévez

Nicolás Dumit Estévez Raful: It is good to reconnect with you after fifteen years. We met at Tyler School of Art, Temple University, while getting our MFAs. You were studying painting and I was in the craft department. We both studied performance art with Coco Fusco.  How would you say your time with Fusco might have influenced your current art practice?

Ayana Evans: At that time the thought of performing terrified me so much that I don't think I learned any technique from Coco. I was too scared to pay attention to that because she was encouraging us to DO IT... I didn't want to do that. I was extremely self-conscious when it came to my body then. However, she taught the history of performance art with such detail and thought that I was fascinated by it even then. She made it a comfortable concept for me. Coco also introduced me to Lorraine O'Grady at that time because I wanted to write a paper on her. Lorraine and I are still in touch. Lorraine's work is a huge influence on my current work, particularly Operation Catsuit.

I should also say that knowing Coco made the idea of being a Black performance artist seem like a normal thing to me. It was much later that I realized how many people view it as something that women of color don't do. In the end, without Coco's class I probably wouldn't be making the work I make now.

NDER: The Philadelphia of the late 1990s was an obviously segregated place. I recall the journey from Center City, with its Betsy Ross-like cute little houses and the contrasting scene that North Philly provided, with row after row of neglected buildings and clear signs of economic and racial oppression. Can you talk about the subject of race in your work? It seems that so little has changed in our country.

AE: Race in my work... oooh... that's a BIG question! Well, firsts let me say that I think no matter what, because I am performing through a Black body, the work is ALWAYS about race, even when it's not "about race," it's about race. Some of my pieces tie into questioning racial dynamics directly (Like Operation Catsuit) others do not (Stay With Me). I think that for me it is important to talk about race because, being from the Southside of Chicago, I grew up in a segregated environment and also in a environment with a lot of Black pride, Black culture, Black home-owners, Black churches, Black owned businesses, etc. I am very comfortable and sure of my Blackness and while I am aware that it is a construct, I am also aware that a Black women doing jumping jacks in heels and a gown for 3 hours will be read differently than a white woman doing the exact same action in the exact same clothing because of race and all the historic struggles, contemporary pain and perceived stereotypes that are placed on bodies of color. I hope my work brings some of this into question.

NDER: There is a fascination in the arts with activism. Can you tell us what lead you to performance art instead of pursuing a more straightforward path into social justice? I am asking this question while thinking about the political issues informing your work, especially in regards to the black body.

AE: I think the most effective forms of activism are teaching and protest. I teach as a form of activism. I see my art as a way to raise questions, start dialogues, and open up conversations. It is also selfishly a way for me to "get some things off my chest." Art is my release. I make things that I want to see... That is not necessarily activism. It can be, depending on what you desire to see, but it could just lead to a beautiful moment, something that haunts your mind in a pleasing way. To me that isn't activism. Beauty is important to have in this world but it is not on equal footing with teaching in a classroom in terms of social impact for me.

The project that I am now ending with Jamaica Flux is the first time my performance was equal parts activism and visual/personal desire, in my opinion. For that project I gave teens free SAT/ACT lessons while wearing the catsuit. We talked about performance art and I explained you are "in it right now." In this way I taught as my whole self not as my more toned-down teacher version of me. The idea of punishment and reward were discussed in class and acted out in push ups for lateness- I had to do them and the kids did too.– (LOL. Often we did them together), lip-synched songs, running around the room a couple times in heels when I’m frustrated... that type of thing. I explained when you don't perform your teacher is punished. Students are often unaware of that. They only think of their own punishments. I taught SAT prep and U.S. history to wealthy families for over 7 years. They paid my company $238/ hr minimum and I was paid $48 max. I did that job always with the thought that I could not have afforded this level of help as a teen. What does it mean that someone wealthy can have five tutors at once (one for each subject, and yes I actually saw this happen some times) and a student with less money and parents with little time after work has to compete with that same student for college slots and academic scholarships? In this way I see offering free lessons in a neighborhood such as Jamaica, Queens, an act of activism. Financially and mentally leveling the playing field through art.

NDER:  I suggest we shift the conversation a little bit to talk about what you plan to do at El Museo as part of your Office Hours (OH) residency? I read your proposal and I have to say that your ideas for this are political as well as ludic.

AE: I am basically going to take the patrons of the museum through the steps of making a star artist. I am thinking of it more in terms of the type of star that Beyonce or Jennifer Lopez are rather than the way that Adrienne Piper is. What does it mean to craft yourself into a star? Each week I will explore building persona through different themes: Work Weeks (first two weeks will be the foundation where installations such as my selfie station for the public will be formed); Dance Week (I will dance. I will invite dance friends to perform and lead lessons, Stanley Love Performance Group, which I am a part of, has agreed to hold a practice at the museum so the process of making a dance show is revealed. The group will also give a short show– THIS is will be special.); Beauty Week (makeup artists will come do my face and museum patrons’ while I continue to expand on my studio installations); Legends Week (we have to pay tribute to the Divas who came before us in performance); #SquadGoals Week (cool people have cool friends. Stars have friends who are stars... I want to invite mine to participate, hang out, install, all of that. We will even host a performance picnic).

NDER: What’s up with your catsuits?

AE: I love them!  I am embracing my body FULLY when I wear them. I am claiming territory in the room when I wear them. I am comfortable when I wear them. I am daring you to judge me for wearing bright tight clothing when I wear them. I am being myself when I wear them.

NDER: Your proposal for El Museo involves friends. Who are these people that will come to El Museo to build a stage for you, to apply make up on you, and to create a dance party with you, and how do you foresee your work with them conceptually speaking? 

AE: These people represent the concept “if one of us gets in we all get in…” The crack can always become an open door. They are all people I know who I collaborate with, discuss art with, bounce ideas off of regularly, people I respect as friends and as artists. Some people who have said yes are: Stanley Love Performance Group, Jodie Lynn Kee Chow, Geraldo Mercado, Lisette Morel, Davis Thompson-Moss.  I recognize it can be seen as an active statement that all these people make various types of art, are different genders, races, and ages.

NDER: You plan to integrate the work of Linda Mary Montano into the actions that you will develop during your residency. Can you expand on this? What draws you to this specific artist? The same question applies to Lorraine O'Grady.

AE: These are people I want look at during Legends Week... I haven't talked to any of them about this yet, sooooo let's just say I want to honor them and if someone wants to come to my studio at El Museo for a live streamed interview that would be awesome!

For Linda Montano specifically there is a mental pushing of what the mind and body can accomplish in her work. I really respect that. I love the idea that she doesn’t always give you a visual, but she always gives you a concept. She also uses time as an instrument in her practice. I am interested in that. Am I speaking too abstractly? In any case, I adore her work; same goes for Lorraine O’Grady and Sur Rodeney (Sur). They all work with public interventions. Their art is not contained to a gallery or museum. It begins in the world. They just show up and give it to the public like Lorraine O’Grady's Art Is, for example.

I think I am in love with Sur's work because so much of it is activism for the Black queer community through Visual AIDS. I respect that. He is constantly archiving and writing. And then I like that his form of performance can render a simple act profound. For example, in Free Advice he simply sat by the side of the road with a sign and gave free advice. How great is that?! Sometimes simplicity in art makes it shine, makes the message clearer. That allows for more people to access it. Accessibility is important to me. I have no interest in shutting out the public when I perform. I think all of these artists feel the same way.

NDER: Any ideas for the closing of your residency?

AE: I have not figured that out yet!

To visit Ayana Evans’s website click HERE

This interview is part of Back in Five Minutes, a residency program conceived by Nicolás Dumit Estévez for Office Hours at El Museo del Barrio.

This Q&A was first published with El Museo del Barrio as part of Back in Five Minutes

During 2014 -2015, artists of Latin@ or Caribbean descent living in New York City’s five boroughs are offered a studio located within El Museo del Barrio’s exhibition space. Selected participants, one per session, are invited to generate a new body of work in the midst of what is customarily understood by El Museo and its visitors as an area allocated for the installation of finished pieces. Instead, Back in Five Minutes allows for any performative elements informing the artistic process and practice to surface, as well as for the on-going presence of the resident artist in the gallery to become an artwork in and of itself. Participating artists generate  public programs and workshops, thus further extending the scope of “OH.”

Back in Five Minutes is a Component of Office Hours (OH), a project by Nicolás Dumit Estévez in collaboration with El Museo del Barrio’s staff, artists and audiences.