Data Chigholashvili

Nicolás Dumit Estévez Raful Espejo Ovalles Morel: dear Data, we met through Susan Katz, former Program Director at CEC ArtsLink, an organization that has been doing the job of connecting creatives from regions like Central Asia and Eastern Europe with their counterparts in the United States. This work is so much needed at a time where most of the focus at home in the United States is on the art market. CEC ArtsLink openness is admirable. Would you tell me about you in connection to all or some of this?

Data Chigholashvili: Hello Nicolás, first of all, thank you for inviting me to do the Q&I with the Interior Beauty Salon. I am grateful to Susan for introducing us! Indeed, she has been doing crucial work connecting people in arts and culture in different parts of the world through various programs. International collaboration has been a significant aspect of my practice, and working with CEC ArtsLink is a part of that. Perhaps I’ll tell you about some of these, as otherwise we might end up with a very long text right in the beginning.

I have worked at an artist-run organization GeoAIR, where we collaborated with CEC, and then with their team participated in forming the Art Prospect network and program at the beginning of 2017. Thematically dealing with public space and social engagement, broadly speaking, it has included collaborations between organizations and individuals in post-Soviet countries and the US, and it has been a very, very important initiative if you ask me. You mentioned connecting creatives from that part of the world and the US, which is what you have participated in as well. But there is also another crucial side, which includes connections, exchanges, and collaborations among the network member countries. All of the countries are of course very different, art scenes are locally unique, and even the understanding of social engagement is very diverse and its implementation is differently challenging in each case. But there are also a lot of similarities or intersections from the shared history in the 20th century, as well as before that in some cases, which of course should not be mistaken in generalization. I always found it intriguing to see and discuss the different paths and experiences of these countries since getting independence in the 1990s. For a few years, GeoAIR had a regional residency program, which was great to connect with and learn about the art scenes in Georgia’s direct neighborhood. There were other programs that I’ve participated in that included partnerships in Eastern and Central Europe, which was mostly in the framework of EU projects. However, there was very little connection with post-Soviet countries in Central Asia, and Art Prospect made it possible on the network level between most of the countries. I think for many of us this took the international work in the post-Soviet context to a totally different level.

Later, the State Silk Museum in Georgia also joined the network, and we implemented several interesting projects in the framework of Art Prospect. To name a few, the festival Memory Threads: Museum and Neighborhood explored the complex historical and contemporary connections in the museum’s surroundings. There were a lot of residencies as well. As someone who has worked on many residency programs for artists and curators, I could see certain differences between those coming from Western art scenes and those from Art Prospect member countries. Both of them important and interesting, just very different dynamics and approaches that you encounter when hosting a residency project – a unique experience in itself. I think being in a residency or even running a program is a fascinating experience. Even though it is a lot of work, it’s also so fulfilling because you get to meet so many people, work with them daily over a certain duration of time, share and learn so much, and I have been lucky to have found a lot of great friends too!

NDEREOM: I ended up traveling with CEC ArtsLink to Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan and I loved the experience. I made friends, met curators and artists, and immersed myself in life in the region. You are from Georgia  and now living in Brooklyn. What are the energies that might be informing your thinking in this new context? I am asking because my trip to Central Asia really rewired my brain in ways I welcomed.

DC: I was happy to hear you had such an amazing residency experience. Every time I am in a residency or a long-term program in another place, I find it very inspiring, equally in a big city with a vibrant art scene such as New York City or Berlin, or a relatively smaller city such as Melitopol in Ukraine. Because of my educational background in anthropology, and perhaps my personality as well, I get very curious to explore new places, and then see how it can connect with my work there and in general, what inspiration can I get, what can I give back, etc. Context is very important to me, and that’s probably the voice of an anthropologist in me. But generally, anthropology and art, at least my take on the practice between them, is very much connected to life and daily experiences.

Now I live in New York, it’s not a residency or a project with a certain duration, but I moved here, and continue my work in the local art scene, which is much bigger and more diverse than what I am used to – starting here, sort of re-emerging in the new art scene, for me is a challenge that provides a lot of inspiration and possibilities. It’s an exciting moment! The importance of context is of course still there, and self-reflection is also crucial to me – I often build on different experiences in time and space, which sometimes is even purposefully visible in my work.

 I believe that in art personal aspect is crucial, often a starting point at least, and there are a few topics I am currently exploring here – as usual they are interconnected for me. For example, I am interested to see the works of migrant artists, people who moved here for very different reasons, and who often have to start anew while dealing with a lot of other issues of relocation. Also, there are the topics of identity, gender, and sexuality, which intersect with the previous point, and generally with my interests in queering perspective. I think intersectionality is crucial here, as usually there’s more than one topic at play. I am also interested in how international collaboration, and diversity from different contexts can contribute to the complexity of such work, which is something I feel could benefit a lot of shows I’ve seen. This is of course a very general sketch to tell you about my line of thinking regarding what you asked. I have been going to a lot of exhibitions and events, and having discussions, it has been very refreshing and educational! In April and May, I am having a curatorial residency with Residency Unlimited and I would like to work on some of these topics. Also, earlier you mentioned that in the US the focus is on the art market, which is of course visible and influences a lot. Back in Georgia, in the previous years, the art scene has been developing predominantly in this direction, and that has consequences on creative work. But here I also encounter a lot of activities that are not merely commercial but directed toward knowledge sharing, criticism, and creativity, which I think is vital.

NDEREOM: Given your thorough and extensive creative praxis, there is so much we can talk about. What if we were to start with the subject of identity or identities? There is a great deal of emphasis on this in the arts in the US. What are the conversations about this topic in the place you come from?

 DC: Are you sure we should start with this topic? I already feel like I need to keep my answers shorter. It is generally a very charged term, and it can be very volatile as well, depending on what aspect of identity we are talking about and where. In post-Soviet contexts, which can be quite conservative and nationalistic, I have seen discussions around this topic turn into very heated arguments to the point that it did not make sense in the end. I might just go on and on about the subject of identity and identities, but I’ll try to be succinct and mention some points about it in the arts in Georgia.

Right now, I remember the projects of Khinkali Juice – a collaboration of Sophia Tabatadze and Nadia Tsulukidze. They dealt with very important and urgent topics such as gender, traditions, religion, nationalism, Western aspirations, etc., and included humor too. Even the very name “Khinkali Juice” suggests that, but I think one must be familiar with Georgia’s context to fully grasp this. The topics they dealt with are not less urgent today, if not more to be honest, but the way they did it responded to the time very well. There have been other artists or collectives that dealt differently with the topics of identity, and again, the reaction could have been very different. In previous years, LGBTQI+ identity topics emerged more actively in the arts in Georgia. Sadly, that can get a very bad reaction in a heteronormative and conservative environment, where certain myths are used as tools of propaganda, unfortunately, affecting diversity the most, something that we have seen worsening in recent years. Of course, it depends on many things, but the risks of volatility are always there with this topic. Generally, it’s safer if the project is not very direct in its commentary and/or is in a secluded form. Being creative helps there, but ideally, it should be a choice, not a survival mechanism. This simply shows that among the diversity of identities that exist in one place, some prevail over others. However, if you say that many people will act surprised, and come up with a lot of “buts.”

NDEREOM: It is difficult for me to explain how I can feel in connection in places so far away from my own social locations, or perhaps not, like Bosnia and Herzegovina, when I feel so strange in some parts of the United States. I have felt more at home in countries 15 hours away by airplane from home in New York City than I have felt in some states in our country. You have curated projects dealing with what it might entail to be a foreigner. What can you say about this?

DC: I think I also know that feeling! If we look at identity not as a fixed notion, but as that in flux, with a complexity of interconnections in time and space, the idea of “home” is fascinating too. Tbilisi is my hometown, I was born and grew up there, and it’s a very inspiring place, but quite a demanding one at the same time. At GeoAIR, after many years of working on urban topics, we worked on a publication about the city and called it “Tbilisi – It’s Complicated” (2019) to reflect the complicated relationship one develops with this city, where at times, I have felt as a foreigner too.

Urban environment has been one of the main topics in my research and art practice, and I was also studying the identity of Tbilisi – a very old city known for its blossoming diversity throughout centuries, or at least we have heard so. At GeoAIR we were actively working on urban topics and at some point, together with my colleague and friend Nini Palavandishvili, we decided to look at urban diversity through migration and foodways. First, we collaborated with ICOMOS Georgia and the local community in the revitalized Betlemi Quarter in Old Tbilisi for their annual festival. During the “Traveling Foodways. Betlemi Quarter Stories” (2013) project, we wanted to see the dynamics of multiethnicity in the old part of the city famous for this social aspect throughout centuries. The idea was to meet with the representatives of different ethnic groups living there for generations, cook together and have discussions with them, and we also invited young professionals from anthropology and the arts to get involved. Afterward, fanzines were prepared, and during the festival, participants shared their stories, recipes, and food with guests.

Then we decided to expand this approach and explore the city’s identity in relation to the recent migration at that time. A lot of people were coming to Georgia for various reasons, from all around the world, temporarily or permanently, to study, work, or find better living conditions, etc. But we found out that there was not much exchange between “hosts” and “newcomers,” and in such context stereotypes can easily prevail. This is how Cooking Imaginations: Tbilisi Migrant Stories (2014) started. We collaborated with a lot of people from art and anthropology. Tamara Bokuchava also joined our main team, and all three of us had the experience of living abroad, of being a foreigner, and I think that was important as a background as well. Food is a crucial part of who we are, and it is also a great way of bringing people together, but beware, it can lead to heated discussions as well. The project had a lot of components and aspects to it – research, TV appearances on cooking shows, public cooking, publications, residencies, workshops with schoolchildren, etc. In the end, we put all the different materials in a specially designed “food box” that became the final publication. This project showed different meanings behind the word foreigner, the challenges that come with it, and how beneficial openness and exchange can be – it was done on a personal level, thanks to the openness and bravery of our participants who were willing to share. It also showed that the identity of a place includes everyone sharing it.

NDEREOM: In some of your writing you mention the importance of spaces that nurture queer voices, for example. I would like to hear more about this, if okay with you.

DC: Yes, let’s talk about that as well! I guess you are referring to my article “An [Imaginary] Museum of Surviving Bodies.” In 2021, Indigo magazine in Georgia was working on a special queer issue and they asked me to write about queer topics in Georgia’s arts and culture. I wanted to review certain directions in queer art, as it were, some of the artists, projects, and tendencies related to it – I was seeing the need of combining certain information that had accumulated. During the writing process, I realized it was becoming like a search for a certain kind of museum, an imaginary museum in Georgia’s case that ideally would specialize in queer history, culture, and art. Also, I wanted to show that with this perspective “surviving bodies” referred to those works, objects, or artifacts that represent queer people and stories, and they are surviving objects because in the dominant heteronormative environment, they tend to be misrepresented, or vanished. I have been to museums that focus on queer topics and found these visits empowering and educational. It’s very important because we can see queer history, queer art, and experience it in a safe place while feeling represented. But not everyone has the possibility to travel and visit these places. Some museums in the West started rethinking their histories and objects through queering perspectives, talk about it more, there are many examples in NYC, and perhaps in a few other bigger and more liberal cities around the world, and that’s also great! There are many other details and subtleties in the article which was published in Georgian, and I made an English version and can share it if anyone is interested.

The article itself was connected to an exhibition called Surviving Bodies that I curated in 2019 as part of URBANARE’s series called “Remainders.” It was a side project to the Silk Museum’s program on the International Museum Day and the Night at the Museum that year. I conceived it as an imaginary exhibit from the future concerning nondichotomous bodies and safe spaces. It featured photo objects by Katharina Stadler and sculptures by Tamar Botchorishvili, that were exhibited outside the museum, inside the structure of the “Silk Pavilion” by Leyla Musayeva. “Surviving Bodies” was linked with an object in the Silk Museum’s exhibition hall, and the visitors were invited to go in the museum and see it as well. It is a box that features double cocoons – spun by two or perhaps more silkworms together – that end up having various shapes and there’s a special word in Georgian for it. However, I discovered that the old label referred to them as “ugly cocoons” – I saw this as a scary metaphor from the previous century, and wanted to rethink that within the exhibition. We made a postcard with the image of that object and added “not so” before the old label. But since the Salon’s approach is vegan-vegetarian, we will not be including the image of silk cocoons here. I elaborated on this and a lot more in the article I wrote later. Also, this is an example of what I meant when I said that in my work, I usually connect different experiences.

NDEREOM: We can’t end this conversation without talking more about the Silk Museum and the mulberry trees. The ecosexual in me is seeking to learn more about this!

DC: That’s a great topic to end with. The State Silk Museum in Tbilisi is a fascinating place! It was built towards the end of the 19th century as the museum, the library, and the main building of the Caucasian Sericulture Station – a large research complex established by the Russian Empire in Tbilisi as a regional institute in the Caucasus. It went through a lot of changes since then, as did Georgia itself. I will not go into the details of its history, which is quite complex, but you can read more about it on the museum’s website. In 2006, it became a state museum, and parallel to its main museum work, in the previous years, it became this unique example of a historic museum that is also one of the active contemporary art places. The museum’s current director, Nino Kuprava, is an artist and a curator as well, and she initiated and conceptualized this openness for contemporary art, which proved to be very successful, and I am glad that I was a part of that for a few years as the Curator of International Programs there.

Currently, the museum’s building is going through a complete rehabilitation process, and it has been closed for some time. However, even when the museum’s objects were wrapped and boxed, I created a series of projects called Without Museum Objects (2021) as I wanted to rethink the uniqueness of this exhibition space itself – even the exhibition furniture is said to be designed according to the sketches of the building’s architect Aleksander Szymkiewicz. There are many fascinating things about this place and one of them, perhaps one of my personal favorites was the so-called “Mulberry Room” – yes, a room dedicated to the mulberry tree and its research, as domesticated silkworms are picky eaters and will only eat leaves of mulberry trees.

 I cannot stop thinking about mulberry trees, as I keep seeing them everywhere, even in NYC. I have childhood memories of these trees and their delicious fruits, and then they showed up in my work as well. I feel like I will be making a project about them here as well, honestly, I already started researching something about it. I did a series of works on mulberries. Actually, as part of Art Prospect, in 2021 we hosted the residency project of Carolanne Patterson, an artist based in New Haven, CT. She did an amazing installation – a meditation space, a healing circle called “Cocoon Room” that was temporarily installed in the center of the main exhibition hall, among empty vitrines and wrapped museum objects. I curated it and meditated in there as well, and later wrote a text Without Museum Objects: Meditation on Mulberry Trees – it was a healing experience!

Afterward, when I started working independently, I presented my research on the museum’s photos of mulberry trees at an event called They Are There, Sometimes. It was a collaborative event with artist Nino Kvrivishvili, following the invitation by Nina Akhvlediani and Olaf Nicolai to participate in The Whole Life. Archives & Imaginaries congress at HKW (2022, Berlin, Germany). I talked about mulberry trees and Nino discussed textiles and art, in a way we talked about the starting point and final results of sericulture, and drew from the archives of the Silk Museum. The museum has a very rich photo collection as well, and I have been observing a subgroup concerning mulberry trees, where I noticed there were usually people photographed with trees. My research in visual anthropology helped me to identify different directions there and through these images talk about people, nature, dominance, and many other topics that sericulture can reveal if we look beyond just silk fabrics. I will not go into more details, but you can find the recording of the event in this link. In 2023, I wrote another text called Mulberry Archive. It also explores these photographs, and in a way, it is an ode to the “Mulberry Room.” There I also talk about the complex history of the museum, without which it’s hard to understand that place and its objects. I think mulberry trees are staying with me for some time.

NDEREOM: One question I despise is: What are you working on? This question is so common in the art industry.Instead, I would like to ask you: what makes you get up in the morning and take the first step for the day? What makes you want to move your body forward into the world and interact with it?

DC: I think I already partially answered the question you don’t like. Your other question is great, and maybe not so easy to answer right away, especially in these trying times. I think what gets me up in the morning is the realization that it’s another day, and I try not to take that for granted. Of course, there are better and worse days, but I want to discover small and big wonders on my way, share kindness, and in the spirit of The Interior Beauty Salon – heal on personal and collective levels. I still find a lot of that in art.

 NDEREOM: I thank you for giving me the opportunity to ask questions and to learn from you. I hope that we have the opportunity take a walk through New York City and to continuing this dialogue in person.

DC: I am grateful for your time, and the possibility of doing this Q&I. It’s always great speaking with you, and I look forward to walking and talking with you in NYC. I am sure, we’ll see a mulberry tree or two on the way.

All images courtesy of Data Chigholashvili

Data Chigholashvili’s links: Website / Instagram / Linkedin / Publication

Data (David) Chigholashvili works at the intersection of social anthropology and contemporary art. Their research, curatorial practice, and art projects explore topics around visual and urban anthropology, ethnography, socially engaged art, natural and built environments, public space, migration, foodways, memory, queering, archives, and/or museums. Data’s projects are strongly related to the specificities of contexts and often include collaborative, educational, and/or participatory aspects.

Data obtained the Degree of Master of Science in Social Anthropology from The University of Edinburgh (2012), and The Degree of Bachelor of Humanities in History, Politics and Culture from The University of Georgia (2009).

 As of February 2024, Data has worked in arts and culture independently, also as the Curator of International Programs at the State Silk Museum, and was in the team of an artist-run organization and residency GeoAIR. They have participated in many residency and fellowship programs, presented at different conferences and events internationally, as well as written for various platforms and edited publications.

Selected projects and publications:

Curatorial projects – Pop-Up: Textiles (2022); Without Museum Objects project series including the exhibition Leafeatersand installation Cocoon Room (2021); The New Dictionary of Old Ideas (2020); exhibition series Remainders including Surviving Bodies (2019) and It’s unedited but I reconstructed (2018); Cooking Imaginations: Tbilisi Migrant Stories (2014).

 Texts and publications – Mulberry Archive (The State Silk Museum, 2023); Without Museum Objects: Meditation on Mulberry Trees (The State Silk Museum, 2021); An [Imaginary] Museum of Surviving Bodies (Indigo magazine, 2021); co-authored contribution on Socially Engaged Art in Georgia (CEC ArtsLink, 2019); co-edited publications Tbilisi – It’s Complicated (Onomatopee, 2019) and city [un]archived (Onomatopee, 2015).